Forums » General » Tech » Bitcoin value - New High!







Prison mike
tophat Prison Mike
Since: Sep-2014
pushpin 139 - 4 Reviews


I have been following Bitcoin's (BTC) value on a daily basis for approximately six months now. In that time, I've seen one reported all-time high at approximately $1,300 USD and on May 4th I observed that value break the $1,600 USD threshold. It has since retreated a bit from that high, but it is well above $1,500 as of this writing.


I have yet to acquire any Bitcoin units myself - but that is not without trying. Earlier in the year I was looking for an ATM koisk Coinucopia advertised stationed in the Valley Fair Mall. I was unable to get to it, although I did see four sawed off floor studs at the reported location on the mall's second level. I learned later the kiosk was moved to the ground level but I did not return since.


At the time of my attempted Bitcoin acquisition the value was around $800/BTC unit, so I am more than a bit perturbed I could have nearly doubled my investment if I exchanged at the latest peak value. I do understand there are overhead costs skimmed off the top of a Bitcoin exchange, just like one would expect with any brokerage house online transaction.


Anyway, I will continue to monitor BTC's value and see if I can discern a cyclical trend. What I may be observing up to now is as more global uncertainty is ginned up, the value increases.


For the record, I installed the Electrum Bitcoin "wallet" and get the summary BTC-to-USD exchange rate reported through it . Electrum is supposed to be newbie-friendly. I've also discovered the online resource cryptowat.ch for more comprehensive exchange rate information.


Please post your thoughts and/or experiences with Bitcoin or any other virtual currency. Have you made any substantial gains by investing in it? Or, perhaps if you are holding some is it wiser to continue holding it given the general state of global uncertainty?


Prison Mike







Mod icon md honu1111
Since: Jun-2015 Vip  
pushpin 352 - 1 Review


Meh. It's like gold. Etc. Over the past 8 years or so I have seen huge peaks, and huge crashes. As well as massive thefts and entire exchanges evaporating in to the ether- billions lost. It's a commodity.. but not a very secure one.  If you buy/sell at the right time you can do very well. Wait and you might get screwed. Over time it will indeed generally rise. But it also swings wildly based on political realities (generally- times of trouble it goes up, stability it goes down- just like gold).


I have known people who have made- and lost fortunes on bitcoin. Despite the comparison to gold a better one might be the stock market. If you're investing long term you will likely come out ahead. If your daytrading you might make some money, make a fortune, lose some, lose everything. 


Now... the blockchain- the technology behind bitcoin- THAT is the future. 







tophat Dubded21
Since: Apr-2016
pushpin 17



Now... the blockchain- the technology behind bitcoin- THAT is the future. 

---

Honu's post says it best.

(Not that im dickriding)

And in closing summarizes this thread. Bit has already birthed many other digital currencies. Ive been following since the beginning, and even mined/dedicated node in the early days. 

In my opinion, as with anything intangible, 'tis only worth what you assign it. 









Prison mike
tophat Prison Mike
Since: Sep-2014
pushpin 139 - 4 Reviews


And up it goes, and up it goes. BTC is about 4 bucks short of $2,300, as of this writing. If I would have simply bought 1 Bitcoin unit when I first started the topic (17 days ago), I would have netted close to $1,000.


Oh well, it's hindsight. Woulda, coulda, shoulda.







Face 1977782 1920
rose HannahBruh
Since: May-2017
pushpin 1


Aaand a few years ago I refused to buy some because "they are too damn expensive"... It was at $50/BTC... I wonder when its gonna stop rising this time.


Hannah







Mod icon md honu1111
Since: Jun-2015 Vip  
pushpin 352 - 1 Review


And up it goes, and up it goes. BTC is about 4 bucks short of $2,300, as of this writing. If I would have simply bought 1 Bitcoin unit when I first started the topic (17 days ago), I would have netted close to $1,000.


Oh well, it's hindsight. Woulda, coulda, shoulda.

---


Yea- but would you have sold? Or would you have expected it to keep going up?  (this is a makor reason it is currently going up). Then when it dropped- would you expect it to recover, and hold out? Then when the next major exchange gets hacked or simply disappears into the ether (which we've seen how many times now? ) and the price plummets- what would you do? Or dog forbid someone exploits the backdoor built into the majority of the main mining rigs exposed a month or so ago- and the whole market crashes...


As I said before- this is a market, like gold- built largely on fear. In times of political/social uncertainity it will do well. In times of stability not so much. And unlike gold- it has no real world value. Gold at least is widely used for everything from jewelery to electronics and even fancy dustings on everything from paper to chocolates. 


And as I said before- I've known folks who have made- and lost fortunes on it. More will do both. But like "day-trading" and short term investing- unless you really understand AND have the time to pay attention to the forces at work, you're gambling. You may get lucky. You may be pawning the title to your car and your house.







Prison mike
tophat Prison Mike
Since: Sep-2014
pushpin 139 - 4 Reviews


honu1111,


Your points are valid and well taken. What I see happening is a true legitimate acceptance of Bitcoin as a legal currency. According to this article from Business Insider posted on SFGate.com, Japan authorized Bitcoin as a legal currency this past April, and a Russian online retailer is slated to begin accepting Bitcoin soon. The Winklevoss twins (from early Facebook divestiture) want to establish and run a Bitcoin-traded fund. They need to gain Securities and Exchange Commission approval first though - really, overcome initial SEC objection, which stands a fair chance of getting overturned.


http://www.sfgate.com/technology/businessinsider/article/Bitcoin-blows-past-2-000-and-2-100-for-the-11163711.php


It simply makes sense to me in a globally connected world of commerce and exchange a universally accepted currency will emerge. Certainly there are risks with dealing or investing in Bitcoin, but there are risks with the stock market and even our beloved "almighty" U.S. dollar. The dollar is backed by nothing tangible any longer. What backs it is the full faith of the United States domestic economy and the faith its citizens and residents put into it. That's it, and that's everything.


Think back about 15 years ago: a career in retail was still considered viable for a high school graduate. If you had a college degree, chances are you could get into a management training program and begin a retail management career. Today, not so much. The former household name, blue chip retailers are going extinct (Sears, KMart, JC Penney; Montgomery Wards closed nearly 20 years ago). What was once considered a sure, solid and reliable thing is not anymore.


We truly are cursed to live in most interesting times.


FWIW,

Prison Mike







tophat jason4854
Since: Jan-2017
pushpin 31 - 3 Reviews


Although the prices of the cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin, Ethereum fluctuate widely right now, overall their prices will keep rising because the underlying blockchain technology is great, there are growing number of startup companies working hard to make the cryptocurrency mainstream. I'd say cryptocurrencies are here to stay, there will be more products/services, people will be exposed to them more, the price will keep going up. The value of cryptocurrencies are quite obvious now. For instance, the traditional financial institutions charge a lot for remittances while cryptocurrency-based services just charge a fraction







396779649 small
tophat fonzy
Since: Jun-2014
pushpin 135 - 3 Reviews


Bitcoin broke $2900 today, and I'd guess it will break $3k resistance soon, and spike up to $4-5k by August.

...but make no mistake, this is a bit of a near-term bubble which I predict will start correcting downwards by end of year (eventually to approach $1k again).


There are some fundamentals affecting price - like the recent block reward halving, capital controls around the world, and scaling debate/solutions (like BIP 148, and Segregated Witness).

I'm not trading bitcoin to "invest", but simply buying & holding as store of value... because I believe in the technology and it's future, while I don't believe in the printing-press US dollar nor govt-controlled banking system. I can see bitcoin hitting stable price of $10k by 2020. I also do not believe in, nor will I buy other "alt-coins".


Bitcoin was released as "Digital Cash" by Satoshi Nakamoto. Due to lack of advancement by miners, transaction fees are rising.. so it's more like "Digital Gold" today.

There is some potential turbulence ahead (August 1st) if the standoff between miners and users does not resolve smoothly. If it goes well (Segregated Witness activates), then bitcoin could eventually return to support a "digital cash" function (think instant, cheap payments... with no middle-man). However, this turbulence will likely separate the timid speculators from the faithful bitcoiner cypherpunks. :-D










396779649 small
tophat fonzy
Since: Jun-2014
pushpin 135 - 3 Reviews


" spike up to $4-5k by August."


Ok... I just came to brag that I nailed my +50% prediction, three months ago. :-D









Prison mike
tophat Prison Mike
Since: Sep-2014
pushpin 139 - 4 Reviews


Okay, Fonz . . . I would say you're entitled to a little boasting with nailing that prediction.


I was unaware of the significance August 1st presented in the Bitcoin-sphere, that being the date the precedent-setting "hard fork" occurred, giving rise to Bitcoin Cash (BCH).


I've been seeing a lot of buzz about segregated witness (SegWit) these past couple of days. You made mention of SegWit in your original post three months ago too.


So, tip o' the hat to you, sir!


Prison Mike







Kramer 1q
tophat Cosmo Kramer
Since: Feb-2015
pushpin 509



Bye bye Miss American Pie 


Bye Bye dear Cypherpunk High

Drove your money  to the levee but  them Bitcoins were dry  

And them good ole boys were drinking whiskey and rye 
Singin' this'll be the day that I die…I wasted my time on that Bitcoin lie.........


The thing is......................... its not what it appears.



Is Bitcoin Really Anonymous? No say the IRS.  As they move To Track Cryptocurrencies With New Chain Analysis Tools.


Wat dat mean boss?          For years, one of the major original selling points of bitcoin was that it was “anonymous.” It always been a surprise that so many people in the liberty movement bought into this scam.


But surely after the revelations exposed by Edward Snowden and organizations like Wikileaks, it is utterly foolish to believe that anything in the digital world is truly “anonymous.”'


The feds have been proving there is no anonymity, even in bitcoin, for some time, as multiple arrests using bitcoin tracking have indeed occurred when the FBI decided it was in their interest. Meaning, when the feds want to track bitcoin transactions, they can, and it does not matter how well the people involved covered their actions.                 Giant OOOOOOOOOOOPS  I didnt know that boss.







396779649 small
tophat fonzy
Since: Jun-2014
pushpin 135 - 3 Reviews


Bitcoin is anonymous for most intents & purposes. (your neighbor cannot tell what you're doing)


However, if you are the government (NSA, FBI, etc) - then Bitcoin *might* not be anonymous by default, if they reeeally want to trace you.

It depends how you use bitcoin.

If you are transacting in/out of a regulated money exchange service or bank - directly tied to your identity... they can easily track you.

if you are using more peer-to-peer methods of exchange... impossible for them to track you.

Another trick is to exchange bitcoin for another cryptocurrency... split it up, then exchange it back - cutting all ties.


Anonymity can definitely be done. How else do you think RansomWare hackers use bitcoin?










Einstein tongue
tophat DurDen
Since: Jul-2015
pushpin 260 - Qr 19 Reviews


It's a commodity, I've been buying LiteCoin as it comes back down from the recent peak, knowing it has a good chance of going back up, and much higher. I haven't paid for any transactions with LTC yet, but will when I need to.







Prison mike
tophat Prison Mike
Since: Sep-2014
pushpin 139 - 4 Reviews


How do you purchase your LiteCoin? So far, I've purchased Bitcoin only from an ATM (Coinsource).


I understand LiteCoin is one of the top five cryptocurrencies: Bitcoin, Ethereum, Bitcoin Cash, Ripple, and LiteCoin. It can't hurt to think about diversification even in the cryptocurrency world.


P. Mike







Einstein tongue
tophat DurDen
Since: Jul-2015
pushpin 260 - Qr 19 Reviews


I have a CoinBase account, and place orders on their GDAX site. They also have an app, but the fees are higher than going straight to the exchange.


yes, diversity is good, in all things, cultural and financial.


D







Kramer 1q
tophat Cosmo Kramer
Since: Feb-2015
pushpin 509


              NOT GOOD FOR ANYONE BUT NORTH KOREA


JPMorgan chief Jamie Dimon issued a brutal snapshot of cyrpto-currency bitcoin declaring that it was a “fraud” that should only be invested in by murderers, drug dealers and people living in North Korea, Ecuador and Venezuela.

         

 “If we had a trader who traded bitcoin I’d fire him in a second for reasons of heightened STUPIDITY,

“You can’t have a business where people are going to invent a currency out of thin air,” he added. “It won’t end well… someone is going to get killed and then the government is going to come down on it.' Just wait for that first death".     (The value of a single bitcoin is down about 1200 since story broke). 


“Don’t ask me to short it, it could be at $20,000 before this happens but it will eventually blow up. It’s a fraud and honestly I’m just shocked anyone can’t see it for what it is,” Mr Dimon said, describing bitcoin as “worse than the old tulip bulbs story".


“The only good argument I’ve ever heard … is that if you were in Venezuela or Ecuador or North Korea.. or if you were a drug dealer, a murderer, stuff like that, you are better off dealing in bitcoin than in US dollars, you are better off bypassing the system of your country even if what I just said is true. There may be a market for that but it’s a limited market.”







Einstein tongue
tophat DurDen
Since: Jul-2015
pushpin 260 - Qr 19 Reviews


I would say he understands cryptography not at all.


Or, if he does, he's trying to scare the dumb money out of the crypto currency market.


But given his position at the helm of the primary U.S. bank, his comments are expected, for he has a profit system to defend.







tophat JackPA
Since: Aug-2014
pushpin 987 - 18 Reviews


A few things, don't discount Jamie Dimon's influence on this topic or his understanding.


http://fortune.com/2017/09/13/jamie-dimon-bitcoin-blockchain/


So I read an interesting article that made a parallel between blockchain & crypto-currencies and Internet 1.0 of the 90's.   Everyone could see the enormous potential of the internet but none of that got realized in the 90's, the business ideas were simply too early.  Poster child 90's internet flops Webvan and Pets.com had business models are now very real in the form of Amazon Pantry and Petsmart.  Only the underlying technical infrastructure profited and thrived (think Intel, Cisco)   Disruption takes time, blockchain technology sounds amazing but I agree with just about everything he said with regards to the currency, bitcoin in particular, and it's valuation. 


It' s not an investment, it's you playing craps in Vegas with a hot roller.  You need to have a plan in advance and when you are taking incremental profits off the table so what you put in is already out and you're playing with house money only.


I do find it interesting that both the major currencies have already had a "split" within their respective communities which is supposed to act as the "central bank".  I have strong interest in the privacy currencies, zcash and monero, as the video below suggests it has great present day utility for large financial institutions AND doesn't have the image issues associated with bitcoin  The metal coin also seems interesting spec play as it caters to the legal marijuana industry who are shut out of the US banking system.     see the video below. 


https://www.cnbc.com/video/2017/08/16/heres-how-to-build-your-cryptocurrency-portfolio.html?play=1







Einstein tongue
tophat DurDen
Since: Jul-2015
pushpin 260 - Qr 19 Reviews


I tell you what, BitCoin and LiteCoin are on sale right now.


D







tophat JackPA
Since: Aug-2014
pushpin 987 - 18 Reviews


I tell you what, BitCoin and LiteCoin are on sale right now.


D

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Here's thing... how do you know?  How do you measure "bitcoin" to determine it's value, it's not a business it's a currency.  this is a momentum and sentiment play that at some point on the horizon governments will get involved in, if nothing to come looking for taxes.   What if the government starts asking establishments that take bitcoin to report transactions, and/or what if regulators become more involved in the exchanges where the ability to "get out" is somehow impaired. you saw what happened in China, what happens when the EU who are big time busy body regulators gets involved.  Clearly the run up in the currency has people's attention maybe to it's detriment.


I am a long investor not a trader with the exception of what I refer to as "special circumstances or dislocations." that I run out of my Roth (no tax consequences)   For example Portola Pharmaceuticals had tried to do a fast track FDA approval letter on medicine with a very high utility in late 2016.  The FDA rejected it (the letter/application), not the med, asking for the letter to contain additional info.  Stock got cut in half, I built an average cost position around $20 and when they got approved in June stock shot up into the mid 60's.  The stock got hammered on paperwork when the science of the meds had not changed.  Full FDA is due later on this and another indication so for now I am holding.  I may take advantage of a secondary offering just priced that's taken the stock down into mid 50's to add to my position.








Einstein tongue
tophat DurDen
Since: Jul-2015
pushpin 260 - Qr 19 Reviews


I would say he understands cryptography not at all.


Or, if he does, he's trying to scare the dumb money out of the crypto currency market.


But given his position at the helm of the primary U.S. bank, his comments are expected, for he has a profit system to defend.

---


What I said... his bank was just caught buying the dip.


https://news.bitcoin.com/after-the-boss-calls-bitcoin-a-fraud-jp-morgan-buys-the-dip/


Fucker, just another sleazeball banker.


- D







Prison mike
tophat Prison Mike
Since: Sep-2014
pushpin 139 - 4 Reviews


That is a galling piece of news, but not entirely surprising. Wall Streeters are the worst, and there's a special high (read: low) spot for Jamie Dimon. 


Thanks for posting the link. As an aside, the story cites the existence of Bitcoin ETN's (Exchange Traded Notes) - which are a more conservative way to invest with Bitcoin without directly buying the BTC units. It's good to have alternatives.


This emerging tale reminds me of the Diesel engine story from over 100 years ago: Rudolf Diesel developed his compression-ignition engine with the idea of helping farmers and rural people do work powered by fuel grown on their land. The original Diesel engines were meant to run on vegetable oils, like peanut oil. The petroleum monopoly at the time put out press releases and planted media stories that the Diesel engine was the worst possible engine technology, and no good would come of it. That is, until Big Oil discovered it could produce a petroleum based Diesel fuel that cost less to refine than gasoline - and still charge roughly the same price per unit. Then Big Oil embraced the Diesel engine, and helped market it as the ideal power plant for agriculture, construction and maritime and naval water craft.


The more things change the more they stay the same.


Prison Mike







tophat JackPA
Since: Aug-2014
pushpin 987 - 18 Reviews


that was an odd article and I'm not familiar with the news "source" however they seem to suggest that somehow JP Morgan Securities AND Morgan Stanley are both related to JPM Chase which wow couldn't be further from the truth


ETN's are exchange traded notes, basically unsecured paper/debt issued by a bank that is supposed to track an index, commodity, etc.  I am familiar with these as they offer a way to get exposures MLP's  inside retirement accounts whereas MLP's due to their partnership capital structure cause tax head-aches in an IRA.   What was purchased seems to be Fx spreads between bitcoin and USD/EUR.  Can't really say what this investment is with the info provided (long or short).  In all likelihood it is a hedge as part of a larger currency bet made by the trading desk.  There's been suggestion that in this regard bitcoin is acting as substitute to gold or in maybe tandem with gold. 


In China, they are keeping exchanges open for another 45 days or so to have an orderly wind-down/exit.  China's immediate shutting down of ICO's will be followed by many countries IMO.  I expect EU and US to follow quickly, they skirt securities laws in this country, it's ripe for fraud similar to the IPO's of the 20's.   


Pure speculation on my part but it does appear multiple ETF like products that track bitcoin and/or a bundle of crypto currencies are trying to get SEC approval, currently there's just one.  This would allow for easier "playing the bitcoin/crypto trade" in more liquid vehicles that for all intents and purposes are stocks.  The owners of these ETF's will undoubtedly be able to charge large fund fee's. 


I still think in the end Jamie Dimon is right, that bitcoin's sketchy past will catch up with it but that is a long view. In the interim those fin-techs that blockchain and crypto-currencies are trying to disrupt will try to keep up, this includes banks and credit card processors.


edit: for those trading bitcoin, are your capital gains taxable?  are your investments in some sort of brokerage account that would report to the IRS? 




 







Img 1283
tophat Dr.PallMall
Since: Feb-2015
pushpin 4419 - 15 Reviews


I wouldn't want to write options on that thing...