Forums » General » FBSM Discussions » No touch, touch, mutual touch







tophat JackPA
Since: Aug '14
pushpin 1053 - 18 Reviews


There have been multiple threads recently on the topic of touch including what does mutual touch mean.  Across these treads there has been no consistency in definition or use of the varying touch terms and as a result all these threads are people talking in circles and basically not being on the same page.  consider this post an attempt to get "on the same page" with terms in the context of FBSM



no touch -  pretty self explanatory, there's NO touching in session,


touch  -   within the flow of the fbsm session a touch of arms, legs, a caress and squeeze of a booty or boob.  kitty is a look not touch


mutual touch -  fov or fiv






where guys are complaining is we are seeing ads where there's what appears to be an "upgrade" to "touch" which then sort of implies base FBSM is  NO TOUCH (see above)  Guys are confused at best, complete turned off at worst because FBSM forever has had  "touch" (see above)    Ladies your inability in ad text or forum posts to be on the same page with clienets is BAD for your business. 


So please lets all get on the same page.   More than anything if you are truly a 'no touch" provider, your ad must say so.  By posting you are FBSM you are implicitly saying you are "touch" so you don't need to elaborate.   If you are a girl using mutual language in your ad, just make sure your idea of mutual is consistent with the above because more likely that not that's what the new client visiting you is gong to think when he see's the term. 


A word used in the past but not as often is "interactive".  We get FBSM is about us/the guy and the term interactive sort of indicates how one way or not a girl's style is.  Let's be clear, more is just more, more isn't necessarily better.  FBSM involves skill and all these other terms we talk about are just ways to convey someone's personal style.  That way guys who like YOUR style can find you :)







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tophat Zep
Since: Feb '15 Vip  
pushpin 1893 - Qr 25 Reviews


Excellent post.  Thank you for helping define the terms for everyone. 







tophat JackPA
Since: Aug '14
pushpin 1053 - 18 Reviews


Excellent post.  Thank you for helping define the terms for everyone. 

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This isn't me, this is/was all "known" before and then everything got disrupted when RB went down. Things are just easier when everyone is on a similar page and it's not a good thing when something as basic as touch we all are not.







tophat NovaProspekt
Since: Oct '16
pushpin 114 - 4 Reviews


You probably want to distinguish between FIV and FOV, there's a pretty big difference. 







tophat JackPA
Since: Aug '14
pushpin 1053 - 18 Reviews


You probably want to distinguish between FIV and FOV, there's a pretty big difference. 

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It was never a distinction made in the past.  FOV/FIV certainly aren't likely to find their way into ads either.  In the past reviews is where those dots were connected for guys, absent of that info defer to the lesser or politely ask. 


Look the "great" old days on RB were just that.   Girls could simply advertise FBSM, between reviews and private chatter, blanks and dots were filled and connected, but the icing on the cake was ultimately a guy you knew/recognized gave her the BIG and that is why you booked.   Yeah know there was a LOT of ymmv some of it true ymmv other more a wink wink, nod nod, that if after a few sessions you proved yourself a friendly fun repeat client out came the extras.  Guys played along, very little of this found its way into reviews, guys were happy, some girls were booked out for week + in advance and/or requiring 90 minute minimum just to book. In retrospect it would seem I landed right on or around the peak.


The above is no longer that scene, the scene now is good, honestly better than I could have hoped from in the summer of 14 when RB went down, hell WAY better than same time last year here.  The economics of the bay area have changed such that there are somethings on the YMMV that simply need charging and fun we had as early adopters to the scene were the perks of being early.  So roll with the times and be happy ... or go to Barcelona







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tophat Zep
Since: Feb '15 Vip  
pushpin 1893 - Qr 25 Reviews


Well, for newer guys and ladies to FBSM, me included, who never experienced RB,  it's nice to see someone helping get both hobbyists and providers on the same page. 







Smokincatrabbit
tophat kenny_starr
Since: Aug '14
pushpin 419 - 12 Reviews


You probably want to distinguish between FIV and FOV, there's a pretty big difference. 

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It was never a distinction made in the past.  FOV/FIV certainly are unlikely to find their way in an ad, in the past reviews is where those dots were connected for guys. As mentioned in another thread, I have come across girls whose boundaries were touch but no penetration. it applied to FOV and kissing


Look the "great" old days on RB were just that.   Girls could simply advertise FBSM, there was a LOT of ymmv some of it true ymmv other more a wink wink, nod nod, that if after a few sessions you proved yourself a friendly fun repeat client out came the extras.  Guys played along, very little of this found its way into reviews, guys were happy, some girls were booked out for week + in advance and/or requiring 90 minute minimum just to book.


The above is not longer that scene, the scene now is good, honestly better than I could have hoped from in the summer of 14 when RB went down.  The economics of the bay area have changed such that there are somethings on the YMMV that simply need charging and fun we had as early adopters to the scene were the perks of being early.

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the good ole days of RB fbsm, I miss those.  simpler, less complicated times (for me anyways).







tophat hifly3r
Since: Nov '14
pushpin 2 - 1 Review


I don't know about you guys, but $200 for no touch is a non starter for me. $80 gets you that, at minimum at an AMP. Some ladies must not realize that.







tophat JackPA
Since: Aug '14
pushpin 1053 - 18 Reviews


I don't know about you guys, but $200 for no touch is a non starter for me. $80 gets you that, at minimum at an AMP. Some ladies must not realize that.

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Well that's just it, it's not 100% clear the example you suggested is even the case, certainly I have not seen such an ad recently.  what I have seen is multiple ads suggesting more touch implying their base session is lite on touch and then shit just gets fuzzy and I move onto someone who's ad I can understand or someone I just know.


FYI there are lot's of guys here in this forum for whom AMP is not an option and/or substitute for FBSM.  I'm "just saying"







tophat CALIF65SAM
Since: Aug '14
pushpin 148 - 2 Reviews


mutual touch -  fov or fiv



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Wow learn something new everyday. I never thought of mutual touch as fov or fiv. I always considered mutual as more being able to massage her too (or like showering together), if there was time and/or desire to do so.


I always thought that FOV was mutual with extras and YMMV.


Now I am wondering if this definition is going to open up a whole new can of warms and a lot of surprised ladies and a lot of disappointed gents?







tophat victortor
Since: Jan '17
pushpin 3 - 1 Review


I have never really considered FIV to be part of "mutual touch."  There have been rare occasions when a provider whom I have seen multiple times allows or encourages it, but I would never take such liberties unless asked.  







tophat JackPA
Since: Aug '14
pushpin 1053 - 18 Reviews


I have never really considered FIV to be part of "mutual touch."  There have been rare occasions when a provider whom I have seen multiple times allows or encourages it, but I would never take such liberties unless asked.  

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The point of the OP is there is text in ads and forum post that are causing confusion.  It sort of centers around "mutual touch", it is being used inconsistently and the spectrum of interpretation is quite wide.  Wide is not good because if she is thinking one thing and he is thinking another people are not on the same page and that's a "lose - lose" situation.  To further complicate things "mutual touch" is often used in connection with an upgraded session and IMO that then causes some confusion as to what a girl's regular FBSM is, is that now "no touch"?  confusion is NOT good.


In the past mutual touch had some traction as an ad term to imply some form of kitty touch (fov/fiv) was allowed.   I would think it's in everyone's best interest people are on same page with that term so all the other ad text can come into clearer focus.  That being said the term "FBSM" alone does imply some touch (not the kitty).   This word exercise is just all about setting the proper expectation going in, if a girl has some YMMV great but that everyone is on the same page at the start is what this is all about. 







tophat doublenuts
Since: Jan '15
pushpin 82


This is a big issue.  Ladies definitely are aware of cheap HE's at AAMPs.  But they are trying to attract men who are interested in a whole experience, including the quality of the incall, the beauty of the provider, the sexiness, the intelligent conversation, the seduction...and the possible connection.  Pricing that will bring up many perspectives.  I happily pay for that kind of expertise.  I personally am not interested in an AAMP...ever.  But if you simply want a release, no frills, then certainly pay $80 at an AAMP....just don't disparage the professional sensual massage therapists who craft a unique experience for a price they consider to be fair compensation for service rendered.







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rose Riley Sun
Since: Jul '14 Vip   Verifiedbadge
pushpin 187 - 15 Reviews


I think part of the problem lies in the fear providers have of using explicit acronyms or terms in their ads since the demise of RB.  The first week after it was shut down, I dove into learning the law around prostitution; what language to use to keep me out of trouble and what language would be indefensible should I need to defend myself. ALL of my communication with clients, as well as advertising, got revised to eliminate anything that explicitly described a sexual act.  As time goes by, I've loosened up *some* to the point of using the acronym FBSM in my ad (definitely a red flag), along with a few other words that indicate P4P, however, aside from using FBSM, I try to use language that is suggestive, but not explicit. I realize this is a challenge for the hobbyists. It's a challenge for me too!  Better safe than sorry, less busy than stressed out about LE.  In chats I've seen among providers, I get that I am not the only one staying on the cautious side with explicitness in advertising.  As frustrating as it is, I think it is useful to remember that the closing of RB was a wakeup call that we are not just one big happy family on these websites.  I'm a whole lotta fun, but I'll never explicitly advertise what you can and can't do with me in an ad, for that reason.  Americans have life after 9/11 and we in this sexy world have life after RB.








tophat JackPA
Since: Aug '14
pushpin 1053 - 18 Reviews


I'll caveat this with my mood is sour this is not a reply to Riley but rather to the thread in general  This post is about how to offer a solution to what is clearly confusion in FBSM ads that IMO is resulting in guys 


1 saying "screw it" and not playing at all, or


2 simply go "next ad" or back to someone whose ad they understand.  


Ladies no one is tell you what text to put in your ad, stay safe, be comfortable, be discrete but please stick to common phrasing vs being creative and inventing your own.  This is particularly true if you start offering a bunch of multiple session styles.  Riley, love your pics and ad text up to the point where I get to your offerings and then I unfortunately #2 from above.  I don't need to know everything I don't want to know everything, but I can't be confused either.


I know what a "no touch" fbsm is  and if you don't have this language in your ad and you are "no touch" i will consider your advertising to be a misrepresentation


I know what a "straight/regular fbsm" is, and for the record this includes respectful "non-kitty" touch.   this is NOT my definition, this is FBSM from the beginning of time definition


I know what an "fbsm plus" is


I know what  kink/fetish/tantra flavored FBSM is


Something for all the ladies on NS to contemplate / consider.  Do you see how many 411's there are for girls/ads on BP?   Guys have your ads, reviews, star ratings at their finger tips and for one reason or other they would deal with a complete unknown vs your offering.  Now I bet at least 1/2 of these guys are simply trying to save $20 which in itself blows my mind but hey it's their money.  In the end your FBSM comes in one of the "I know" flavors of FBSM I wrote above, be safe, be comfortable, be discreet but also be clear enough there's not a misunderstanding what flavor your offering(s) is(are).







tophat Peaktwin
Since: Jul '15
pushpin 104


An AAMP and an AMP are nothing alike.







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rose Korean Class
Since: May '17
pushpin 55 - 5 Reviews


I definitely agree with this! 



I have been hearing a lot of stories of "after donation was in her hand came all the rules of no touching" I read this way too often on NS. I even have some guys who are hesitant and I have to literally grab their hands and put them on my boobs lol like it's crazyyyyyyy to me! Idk oily rubs and body sliding is fun to me...







tophat Genki
Since: Mar '17
pushpin 1942


Brother Jack,


I concur!  Excellent and informative.


Thank you.


G







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rose Riley Sun
Since: Jul '14 Vip   Verifiedbadge
pushpin 187 - 15 Reviews


I hear what you are saying JackPA.  I recently added "RB" FBSM to my title (lol...I literally just learned what that means a few weeks ago!) and hope that helps clarify what my sessions are like. Does it?  I definitely don't want you men passing over my ad because it's not clear! 







tophat gripright
Since: Sep '14
pushpin 212 - 5 Reviews


To those of us remnants from RB days know exactly what you mean. To those new since RB you need to see Riley to know what real FBSM is all about. Hell, I need to see her to remind me too!








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rose Zoey Lovely FBSM
Since: Jul '14
pushpin 13 - 29 Reviews


Thank you JackPA!!! 

Really appreciate the clarity. 


On one of those threads, most of the guys were saying 'mutual touch'

just meant touching her body. Several of us providers were discussing those

remarks....and that hasn't been our experience. When someone asks about

'mutual touch'...which i then ask them for their definition....is always fov/fiv.


I call that 'mutual pleasuring'.  (another variation on 'interactive)


But yes, let's embrace your term definitions. I tell newbie providers this,

but unfortunately they don't always listen. And end up pissing off clients,

when they meant 'touch'. Your definitions have been the norm

for some time now. Get onboard people!


XOXO,

Zoey Lovely

Santa Cruz